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Panic PIN
Entering alternate ATM PIN number summmons help | |
In addition to the regular PIN number (*), each bank card would have a second PIN number that would indicate the user was in some sort of distress (such as being forced to withdraw money at gunpoint). Use of this alternate PIN would summon the police and perhaps put the ATM's camera in a higher resolution
and/or frame rate mode.
The panic PIN would otherwise function just like the regular PIN in that money could be gotten from the machine, so that the hostile party would not be able to tell that authorities had been called. Perhaps the ATM could distribute marked bills as well.
I think that the general knowledge that any coerced PIN or transaction could actually be used to summon the police would dramatically lower the incindence of crimes against ATM users.
(*) Yes, I know that "PIN number" is redundant.
Forget The PIN
http://www.cnn.com/...1/30/eyeball.id.ap/
Forget the PIN, just look into the ATM's camera [dgeiser13, Jul 20 2000, last modified Oct 04 2004]
JP's Patent
http://patft.uspto....31575&RS=PN/5731575
[Not altogether sure this link will work for anyone else - there's a lot of gook in it.] [DrCurry, Aug 15 2002, last modified Oct 04 2004]
(?) JP's Safety Pin
http://www.halfbake...dea/ATM_20SafetyPIN
Isn't this a copy of an idea I'd seen earlier? [smokeyjohnson, Aug 15 2002]
The nightmare:
http://www.wnd.com/...sp?ARTICLE_ID=33209
Panic Pin's no good in this situation... [k_sra, Oct 04 2004]
Jimster's link
http://uk.news.yaho...30523/36/e0npu.html
[k_sra, Oct 04 2004]
Banking on ATM safety - SafetyPIN software developed, but banks aren't buying
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4086277/
New article on this very thing - patented six years ago. [migennes, Oct 04 2004]
(???) Fake ATM machine
http://us.rd.yahoo....d_nm/romania_atm_dc
Don't use one of these, though. [Zimmy, May 07 2005]
Halfbakery best list circa June '04
http://web.archive....akery.com/view/best
Still a paltry shadow of its former glory. [hidden truths, Mar 23 2006]
Urban Legends Reference Pages: PINned Hopes
http://www.snopes.c...s/bank/pinalert.asp
Claim: Entering one's PIN in reverse at any ATM will summon the police. [nilstycho, Oct 15 2006]
[link]
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Neat idea, I don't think it would be to hard to get this done.. I mean.. these days computers control everything. The other side of this Panic Pin can be that criminals could get even more aggresive and force you to give the real pin..
update July 24; Egnor gots a point.. criminals wait untill you got your money, and than strike esp. if there will be a Panic PIN. ATM probably researched* this concept. (* can't find anything on it, but i cant imagine that ATM didn't thougt of this before?)| — | enveekaa,
Jul 20 2000, last modified Jul 23 2000 |
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How would the crimianl know which PIN was the 'real' one? At best, the odds are now 50-50. The 4 possibilities and outcomes are: |
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victim lies, thief believes --> police called
victim lies, thief disbelieves --> $$$
victim tells truth, thief believes --> $$$
victim tells truth, thief disbelieves --> police called |
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Since the ATM will distribute the money regardless, I'd image that the thieves would be betting that they can take the money and run before the police might arrive. Since they have extra incentive to leave the scene, that reduces the chance that they might take out a little gratuitous aggression on the victim before they leave. |
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And it shouldn't be too hard to have it stamp 'STOLEN CALL POLICE' in UV ink if you use the panic PIN...I like this... |
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I think this is an awesome idea, and can't think of any comments that haven't been proposed. However, this does remind me of a good friend who used to taunt me whenever i said, "PIN Number." In a very silly voice he would say, "Yes! Give me my PIN Number so that i can go to the ATM Machine and get some Cash Money!" |
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The problem is that the acronym isn't very good, there's already something called a 'pin'. Almost everybody but the terminally butt-clenched says 'pin number'... |
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Do a google search for "ATM PIN forced reveal". (or "ATM PIN kidnap") It happens fairly often. |
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Yeah, this seems great. But this sort of preventative remedy seems to forget the underlying irrationality that motivates most crimes. It's not a games theory-motivated decision about the probability of marked bills, it's just desperation. Maybe not in all cases, but in most. |
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I thought studies had shown otherwise ... that while individual criminals may well be irrational, crime as a whole can be explained fairly well by economic theory. Except for the occasional random lunatic, people don't do things if it's not worth their while. |
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Society relies on this pretty thoroughly. If you're really unhinged and you don't care what happens to you, it's easy to do a lot of damage. It's all about deterrence. |
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I guess there is some deterrence value in it, but economic theory can definitely explain motivation without taking any of the underlying irrationality out of the means. But I'm not going to argue too hard about this one because I'm definitely not qualified. |
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Also, doesn't this idea raise some privacy concerns? I guess it's still a very far cry away from completely regulating all cash, but doesn't it smack of allowing someone (be it the banks or the government) to track cash transactions at will? |
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Hello, your card has your *account number* on it, which is tied to all the personal data you could hope! Banks already do log all ATM transactions, you know. And you're worried for some reason about adding a second PIN? |
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I'm not convinced by this one. It's hard enough remembering all my passwords and PIN's as it is. I can do without another thanks. Also, although DrBob is an entirely sane and rational person and wouldn't dream of doing it, I bet that there's an awful lot of brain dead individuals out there who would use their emergency PIN when they forgot what the proper one was. Also, why have I started talking about myself in the third person? |
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The emergency pin would be entirely optional, Bob. There's no need to remember it at all, unless you think there is a risk of being frogmarched down to a cashpoint, or held up at one. Indeed, if needs be, the banks could only issue Panic PINS to those who specifically request them. |
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What if you simply made the Panic PIN the reverse of your actual PIN. That way you would have less trouble remembering it, and the hapless perp would be none the wiser. |
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Another point: the cameras in ATMs don't have a very wide field, and it just won't do to have half of the thief's face in the picture- assuming the person was standing beside you (which of course is not always the case). What if you had another camera or two that took a wider angle shot of anyone standing out of range of the first camera when you triggered the alarm? |
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For areas that have a fairly fast police response (regrettably few these days), how about adding a subroutine that a) calls the police, and b) slows the process down a bit so the transaction will take a bit more time to process so the police can catch the perp in the act? One possible idea would be to have the bill dispenser cycle a few more times than normal- which happens anyway when the ATM is low on cash, so things would still seem normal to the thief. |
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BTW- I've also found that a handy can of pepper spray (aka. dog repellent) also discourages some of these ATM thieves- at least the four I've encountered. Keep it in a coat pocket with your wallet (or in a purse- women are luckier that way) and you can surprise the would-be thief quite easily with a faceful of it. A good splash of the stuff will deter all but the most determined, desperate, or demented thug. |
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I know that most ATM's are simply hole-in-the-wall type arrangements, but a few I have been to are located inside a room accessable only by swiping your card, and also only if unoccupied. If all ATM's were so located, then any jerk entering and attempting to use a stolen card would be locked in (having used the Panic Pin of course) and the authorities called. |
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Filling the room with nerve gas is an option that could be incorporated into the individuals Panic Pin. |
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The only thing the Panic PIN has to do in addition to summoning the police is shut down without returning the card. Then there is no way the thief would know if he had the real or the fake number till the cops showed up. |
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Partly baked. Not an ATM, but Security Dynamics already offers a "duress PIN" feature for their SecurID PINpad cards, which uses exactly this principle. |
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How about a Panic Pin Detector for robbers. They could us it to detect if someone was trying to cheat them by using a panic pin number. Then they could beat the crap out of them and take their money. |
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This idea for a panic PIN is really great. Having just found this web site I seem to be several months behind the curve. Everything relevant seems to have been discussed so I'll just add something irrelevant - Richard Pryor said "Just throw up all over your money as you're handing it over, most thieves won't want it then". |
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really great idea and if the machine spat out some invisibly marked bills that any store could check before they accepted them, they mostly check all $20's anyway, instead of real money. and the store could just say "i can't accept this bill", and the thief would have very few places to spend the stuff and in the mean time the thief would be leaving a trail of rejected bills, which could get him/her caught if anyone actually looked. which might happen if he killed his victim or something. |
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Very secure and far more convenient, EFTPOS/ATM cards have made ATM machines obsolescent in Australia and New Zealand. I haven't used an ATM in five years. I get my cash when I rarely need it, at point of sale. There's a swipe-slot or button-pad on every counter. |
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Not -every- counter, and sometimes there's no counter. Cash is still a necessity for a lot of transactions (try using EFTPOS on a bus...) - granted, it is possible to go through your life without seeing cash, but it's very unlikely. |
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This is similar to what the government does for some secure buildings...not that I can talk about this without killing you all :) If I remember correctly, you add 2 to 2 of the digits. It still allows you to think you are using it, but silently notifies the MPs (civilian police in this case). It would allow you to try to withdraw, check balance, etc....but the balance would be so small that they couldn't do much with it. |
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Interesting idea. It would be prohibitively expensive to retrofit ATMs with a duplicate cash dispenser, so the marked bill thing is out. I like the simulated 'low balance' idea - they could get at most $5 or so. The likelihood of police actually showing up in time is very low; at least reduce what they can take. ATMs already have tamper alarms so even with police notification this is a mostly software solution. |
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ATMs that have this feature could be called "SafetyMs" or "sAfeTyM". |
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One small problem with this Idea. |
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If panic PINs came about, then surely theives would know about them as well, I mean, they are people too, probably with bank accounts. And if they're into robbing people and forcing them to withdraw cash from their bank accounts, then they would definitely know about them, and any delay in handing over the money/card being swallowed, etc would make the thieves aware that the victim had used the panic PIN and they would either a.) scarper or b.) be VERY angry at the victim for using the panic PIN. |
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baby_ stefee: good point, but enveekaa beat you to it (see first annotation) |
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i.e. Read the idea, then the annotations...THEN post a concern. |
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Yes the idea works on one level - especially if the police frog march a person to an atm to collect fines!!! |
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You would get a large number of nodogooders typing it in then scarpering, without a mugger to catch. And they'd still end up with their money! |
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Bad idea. How it got this far I do not understand. |
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Scenario 1: You awake in a police cell with a blinding headache. The only remaining memory of the previous night is swaying inebriated outside a bank building, having accidentaly typed in your Panic PIN. Suddenly you find yourself being half nelsoned face first into a cash machine and dragged of into a waiting police van. |
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Scenario 2: Panic PIN is issued by a 'practical joker' to his friend following a request to 'Do me a favour and get me tenner from the machine when you're out'. Hilarity ensues when aforementioned friend calls in tears from bank security. |
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Come on then hit me with your best. |
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Scenario 1: "Good evening, officers. Certainly, I have my identification right here. I seem to have typed in the wrong PIN, sorry to have troubled you." |
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The cops might be useful in scenario 2 after the sucker righteously murders the 'friend'. |
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Starchaser, you are obviously very compus mentus after babysham and as such strike me as a person to offer a second chance. |
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Firstly, this is the eighth time the police have been unnecessarily called out this evening. It's raining heavily and there have already been three rapes and a god damn cop killing that could have been prevented had their activities not been focused on another 'Code 247 at First National on 8th and 44th'. |
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But here's Starchaser, "Good evening, officers. Certainly, I have my identification right here. I seem to have typed in the wrong PIN, sorry to have troubled you." |
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You'd wake up in the same cell but with a slightly more painful sphincter. |
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<shrug> I don't get so drunk as to not be able to walk, then go drive to an ATM to get money. If you do, maybe you need help. |
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We are forgetting the One Law: Murphy's Law (also known as the Sod's Law): if you have a pin, you Shall Forget It. So, two pins, double the trouble. And this is not so much as a half-baked idea as a good idea, with companies being too skanky (forgive the terminology, mind blank as to the correct word). |
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Ok, you've just had your wallet stolen with all your ID in it: "Good evening, officers. Certainly, I have my identification right here. I seem to have typed in the wrong PIN, sorry to have troubled you." Hmm. Yes, good one... |
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Some remote control car alarms use a system called 'code hopping' so that the code changes every time the unit's used. How about each ATM card having, say, four PINs which it uses in rotation, so even if a thief has watched you enter the PIN before he steals your card, the same PIN won't work next time.
BTW, hi, guys, I'm new here. This place is amazing! |
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I think this is genius. It's the equivalent of giving every bank user their own "Red Button." I would use a bank that implemented this system. |
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cyberprog: If you've had your wallet stolen, how did you use the automatic ATM machine. I don't keep my ATM card in my spare wallet. |
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I wonder when this will be the first idea to garner 100 positive votes. We should hold a party, or something. |
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...and that makes me the first person to post the 100th +ve vote to an idea... |
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Let's turn this up a notch : why don't we have the ATM dispense a handy & convenient gun instead of the expected cash when the panic PIN is used. That should make for some interesting street scenes. |
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For those experiencing memory problems ... you could
just make your panic PIN something like HELP. |
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This is a great idea,I think I might copy it and pass it off as my own and make millions of dollars......... |
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Most ATM's don't have the letters on the numbers like a phone,so it's a little difficult to spell 'HELP' with the 'letters' 1234567890... |
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Ever send messages with a calculator upside down? I did all the time when I was a kid. 4 was an h; 3 was an E; for the l you could use 1; and you'll just have to use your imagination for the p (I would just use the 9 even though that's a q)... or you could use the letters that you would find if it was a phone (even though they aren't printed on the ATM) |
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No more than '5318008'... |
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Problem is that most people don't remember what letter is on what number, <Quick! Without looking and without taking a long time to think, what letters are on the 7? And does your phone have all of them?> and standing there and trying to think when someone is poking you in the back with a gun and yelling 'hurry up!' makes it even less likely... |
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Idea sucks ... and let me tell you why ...
During the war in Yugoslavia I had a unique chance to see how people react when you are poking them in the back with your AK-47. |
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They don't move. They don't think. They don't speak. |
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So ... I'll give you advice. When something like this is going on - do what person with a gun says - because playing a hero is nice way to die. |
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[CrashThatch]: That's not the point; you might as well ask how many people here have died of cancer. |
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fyi: I have been using this process for years on my security system at work. And the panic PIN is very easy to remember ... it is your regular PIN plus one. No matter how often you change your PIN, the system recognizes the '+1' and takes appropriate, predetermined action. The only downside I can see is a thief who demands your PIN, you give him the Panic PIN, and he enters it *minus one.* Naw, thieves aren't that smart, or they'd be in a diferent business. |
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How about an extra number that brings up a message that you have exceeded your daily limit, and only gives you nominal cash. That way the thug sees the message, gets a little cash, and maybe he doesn't stick you in the eye with a screwdriver. |
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How about a default Panic PIN of "9-1-1-1" -- we've all been programmed to think "911" in emergencies anyway (at least here in the US), so it might possibly come to mind in such a situation. You could always set up a different personal panic pin if you wanted, but if you didn't bother to before the need arose, you could use the default. |
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Why not just face the camera and scream really loudly for the microphine? |
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Do they have microphones? If they do, they're pretty well hidden...I don't think I've ever seen one... |
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Apart from which, the cameras are not monitored in real time, they're just used for evidence after the fact. |
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It's simple....banks just need to add a braille panic button...problem solved :) |
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O.K. so it isn't "gimme your cash or I'll stick ya!", it's "gimme your card, or I'll stick ya!" Ya wanna avoid all of this, just move to North Dakota. You'll miss the fun, and entertainment along with the crime. |
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Make panic PIN reverse order of real PIN - should be easily remembered. Of course, there will be some who will never remember which is which, those that don't know whether they're coming or going. |
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Cameras aren't viewed real-time, have very poor resolution after-the-fact, and don't pan wide enough to capture a thief unless he/she is very close to the machine. |
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Banks have no economic incentive whatsoever to make ATM's safe - they charge us fees for helping them to decrease their costs. As for violence at ATM's, banks contend that ATM's are in public arena and, hence, violence is due to "acts of God". This reasoning has been successful in court, too. |
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this is a spledid idea... however, there's those little thingies in each bill... no bill is authentic without that little strip WITHIN it... modern technology is advanced enough to make those strips trackable... ergo, once unlawfully liberated from the victim, the money AND the perpetraitor can be tracked... if the perp has spent the money, maybe he could be identified by those which sold him things... it's about time this government starts using all this advanced technology FOR the people, instead of AGAINST the people...
-coke |
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Having a panic PIN be the backwards of your real one is not so good: plenty of folks have palindromic PINs (i.e., "8558"). |
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Having a certain universal code to signal current trouble is also bad: the crook sees you type "9111", and you can kiss your cranium goodbye. It's hard for cameras to get a good look at a guy behind a Halloween mask, but he can get a good look at your fingers as they do the walking. |
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Marked money introduces the problem of permanently marked currency, which afterwards may wreak havoc as innocents try to use it, only to be hauled off to their friendly neighboorhood jail cell for trying to pass on stolen money. |
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I like the idea of a user-determined Panic Pin. A few extra ATM cycles does nothing terrible; plenty of machines do this without provocation. And many machines are in areas where cameras can get a decent shot (of course not those in the little machines themselves, but elsewhere, its feasible). |
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I'm new to half-baked. A great idea, and simple too, like many great ideas. As long as the infrastructure is there to catch the robber and get the money back ASAP. The idea of it only giving back minimal money is nice - but thieves would then quickly infer you'd put in the panic PIN if this happened often. |
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But what is it doing here? It's a great idea, not a half-baked one. Maybe the inventor can degrade it so that it is half-baked. |
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A lot of security alarm systems have this installed, so the technology is already out there. |
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Essentially, you enter your access code (read: PIN) plus one digit. So, instead of entering 1234 (your PIN)
you would punch in 1235 (your PIN +1) |
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In the alarm system scenario, it would send a signal to the monitoring company. The ATM could simply swallow the card. |
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Good Lord - Look at that vote total - Quite a while back & it was in the Neighborhhod of 125 - Mine makes it 166 'For' |
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I think this idea is great! As many have mentioned, there are some flaws though. If I were implimenting this at a bank, I wouldn't post up signs or anything. would have the tellers ask people if they would be interested in a special "anti-thieverey option" and only have them explain it if the person shows interest. This would help keep the idea a secret, but only until people start telling their freinds. |
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As to Mephista's comment, "I hope and believe that paper money will one day become completely obsolete - the sooner the better, for all the reasons given by annotators on this site." I laugh heartily. Watch Fight Club. All your money could be gone, and you'd have nothing...Chaos. But then again, money is the root of all evil, so maybe it'll be a gift, eh? |
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If police would agree reasonable response times, entering the panic pin would set off the buildings silent alarm. Thus 40 seconds later 4 police officers turn up. |
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The next step is simple. Once the criminal has been convicted, he is sentenced to death and executed with 2 weeks. |
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I doubt you will have many more theives forcing people to withdraw cash after 3 or 4 people have been executed for it. Tada.... deterent. |
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Fact: Most of todays social problems are caused by a lack of discipline for young children and the lack of effective deterent for criminals. Bad parenting and poor sentencing. |
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No wonder "loco" is part of your name. |
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Cresting 100 votes pretty much says it. This should, and could, be baked and rolled out tommorow. Someone talk to NCR and get this thing done! |
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No marked bills and it is only a software update. People voluntarily sign up for it, they pick a second pin (they could make it their pin +1, or the reverse of their real one, or whatever they wanted) . It's voluntary, so if you are someone worried about your safety then you get one, if you are a college student who frequently gets blind drunk - you perhaps don't. |
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It notifies the cops, and reduces your available balance to a random number between $40-$60 for that transaction so they don't get away with that much. There are false uses of 911 and fire alarms, that doesn't them un-useful. |
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Although it might increase the number of muggings immediately -after- using the ATM, it would no doubt decrease overall muggings at ATMs... and would all but eliminate the incidents of people being car-jacked and then driven to various ATMs at gunpoint to withdraw money. |
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Thinking as the smart criminal I could be, but dont have the cojones to do the time for: First off, I think the idea is a "good" one, religiously speaking. Of course, who doesn't want to help those unfortunate victims of muggings. |
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However, (CasaLoco), in 40 seconds I can be long gone from the area. And although most criminals rockheaded enough to hurt someone for chump change wouldn't consider prior surveillance (ie binoculars for correct PIN), I would imagine some might adapt if the necessity for them was present. Usually it's the good guys adapting to bad guy tactics, though. My .02 |
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Hmm, I read this idea long ago, but this is the longest, on-topic, halfbakery discussion I have ever witnessed. Good job, all (except me of course). |
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This is the granpappy of em all. A really fine idea. Deserves every vote. |
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Good idea, unfortunately it's wrapped in "negativity" for an experience that the banking world is trying to sell as "positive". Can you see the banking associate explaining this "optional" feature as they open a new account. The horror of the new customer. The home security alarm industry (i.e. ADT) has been doing this forever, you have an alternate pin in the event of a "push-in" to disable the home alarm. Biggest problem, is that under-pressure most people will forget. Many of the notes that I have read such as marking the bills, increasing the quality of the video recorder, etc. are all "over-engineering". I can't imagine a bank ever implementing this solution, and other notes are 100% correct - they have looked at this option internally and already voted against it. |
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How about if it calls the cops and gives out cash from someone else's account? |
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How about a big boxing glove pops out of the money slot and punches the would-be robber? |
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Also, once the 'special' PIN is entered a salemans voice comes on and starts asking those awkward 'up-sell' questions like 'would you like to start payment on a life insurance policy for only mere pennies a day?' In this way, the would-be robber would be made to wait till security arrives and you get to hear a very relevant sales pitch! |
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painperdu, your name is very appropriate for the halfbakery. |
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It's simpler than all this. Get paid in cash, keep it under the bed. |
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Well, it's broken 200 "Aye" votes, but I kinda have to agree with Curseman. Criminals will adapt, so it won't help too much, but it's not a wholely bad idea. |
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I think it's an idea worth exploring. BTW, two Dartmouth professors were murdered by a couple of teenagers who wanted their ATM cards and PINs. This idea would not have stopped that particular crime from happening but if the coerced revelation of the PIN had been the "crime in process" one, the two would have been caught much sooner.
I'm new here. Do these ideas ever get submitted to people who have the wherewithal to make them happen? |
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Fox News Chicago (WFLD-32) just did a report on this proposal 28-Apr-02 about 9:10pm. Their suggested proposal used the PIN number, backward. |
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Talking of myself, I would gladly pay some extra to be able to use that panic feature. I only wonder WHY THE HECK the banks still didn't offer it, it's SO easy to implement!!! |
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I would suggest the following though, if the Panic PIN is entered: |
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1) The police is summoned
2) The money on the card goes "on hold" immediately, except for a random amount below $100, which may be withdrawn as usual
3) The ATM slows down abit, so to force the criminals to stay by it for longer. |
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// Talking of myself, I would gladly pay some extra to be able to use that panic feature. I only wonder WHY THE HECK the banks still didn't offer it, it's SO easy to implement!!!// |
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Actually, it's a bit trickier than you might think, since the panic PIN entry will be discovered not at the ATM itself, but at the database system that validates the entry. Such system would then have to figure out what police should be notified and dispatch them appropriately. To be sure, the companies which authorize PIN-based ATM's and merchants would have the addresses of most such machines and merchants on file (some machines are portable and finding the current location may take some work). |
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There's been a spate of ATM robberies in my area recently, and I've noted they took place after the victim had already used the machine, and made the withdrawal. The bandit made his/her move as the victim was leaving with a wad of fresh cash in hand. I have heard of no robberies of the nature described here, that a Panic PIN would work against. It seems to me that the way for robbers to counteract the Panic PIN would be to continue doing what they are doing, so what good is it? |
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Yes, now if just a couple hundred of you would change your vote to "against," we could get this out of first place. |
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Nice idea, until the robber says im taking ya wallet and driver license with ya address, if you f@ck me over with the wrong PIN ill burn ya house down... |
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Or if the case is that the person is just mugging u direct at the ATM, he could say something like this... |
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Walk through talk through of the situation : |
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Victim:
At ATM inserts card... |
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Bad guy:
Hello mate im robbing you, now before you say anything, behind you is a mate in a car, if you key in ya panic number he will follow you after the police come etc, when he gets you alone he will eat your children... or something nasty like that. Now let me feel the fibre of your fabric.... |
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Victim:
OK there you go its all yours chum. |
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Nah, you should move to NY or London, infact you should move to any town that has an ATM. |
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Since the police are not usually able to arrive in time when you call them on the phone ..I don't think they would make it in time to save you ...unless ofcoarse you gave the panic pin to your wife as a joke to see what she said when they did arrive and find her there with your card. That would be funny |
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Instead of the panic PIN alerting the police, why not have a drawer open to hand out a loaded colt 45. The hapless victim could then deliver a stern rebuke to the perpetrator. I can imagine a lot of arguments against this, but why not give it a try. |
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PT: Can't imagine you'd get such a thing to fly politically, but it would make sense.<p>
911 response time: 10 minutes
.357 response time: 3 seconds
Which is more likely to be of use in an emergency? |
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And during the time that the machine takes to spit out the gun, the robber is supposed to just sit and wait? Nah, I think you'll end up with another gun in the hands of the crook. |
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What's needed is for the ATM to dispense marked bills that can be tracked via some sort of micro-homing beacon, or perhaps powdered like they do with moneybags stolen from banks, so that the thief can be identified later on. |
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This is a terrific idea. All that stands out in my mind is this: What if someone coerced money from the respective ATM machine in this manner, yet there was not actually an assailant? In other words, someone crooked seeks reimbursement for money stolen and hence receives double their money becuase they kept the original sum. After all, camera's do not appear to do enough as it is to identify assailant's, so the person making the withdrawal could have his neighbor stand next to him in a threatening manner, only to receive half the money later that day for assisting in the heist. The exception to this outcome would of course be that the money has a homing beacon as described by RayfordSteele, in which case the money could not be spent, or held onto for a long period of time by the assailant. However, the pressing of such bills to supply every ATM machine on the globe would be quite an undertaking financially, not to mention, the device needed to track these bills, although, I am sure a satellite could be used for that purpose. Good day to you all. |
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Seems that since this idea was born, it has sort of been baked. The new security system we just got in the old castle (house) has an optional alternate "Duress code" for the keypad to disarm the alarm and still alert the police when the user is threatened. The panic PIN is a similar idea. |
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The Panic PIN is the Mother of Invention, that's what it is. |
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Hang on, delivering guns on entry of a panic pin would be basically giving free guns to the criminal fleet of foot. |
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The panic PIN=PIN+1 idea is a good one, if user selectable panic PINs were available then it could be suggested that it should be some function (+ or - 1 on one digit) of your normal PIN. |
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Good idea. My home security system has a panic password that sounds a silent alarm to the police. This is similar. I like it. |
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Or even better, the bills have a skin-irritant that causes painful itching, swelling, and blistering on the thief's hands after a certain amount of time. |
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What if the person actually demands money with a threat
of death if the police is called? As a viewer of Crimewatch
in the UK (I am not sure of any equivalents in other
countries), I know that these things can happen.
Eventually the panic PIN will be found out about. |
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Glad you liked my idea. US Patent 5731575. |
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The reason it is not embraced by the banking industry is that it would remind people that there can be danger at the ATM. As much as a quarter to a third or even more of the overall murder rate in the US is connected to a forced withdrawal at an ATM |
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For further info, check out www.atmsafetypin.com and http://www.legis.state.il.us/scripts/imstran.exe?LIBSINCWSB2042 |
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JP: Your murder statistics are *WAY* off. Also, congratulations on your patent, but this is *not* the same idea. Simply reversing a PIN will obviously not work for people with symmetrical PINs. Selecting an alternative Panic PIN is much superior, and properly makes this an opt-in program. |
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gen1000: I read the patent, which is opaque at best. My points still stand. |
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[DrCurry]: Did you not read the ATMSafetyPIN site? Symmetrical PINs are thoroughly dealt with on the site. Also, and a bit off-topic, I am surprised that you, the person who appears to delight in calling anything even remotely related to another idea "baked," are defending Panic PIN. |
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[DrCurry], calling a patent 'opaque' doesn't at all change the fact that it exists. |
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ADT security systems have done the Panic PIN idea for years. If someone is robbing your house and makes you enter the PIN number, you can just use the Panic number. (which can be anything you want, including the reverse of the real number). |
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The patent would have to be a little more than the simple application of a different combination of numbers. You *can't* patent an idea like that, it has to be a novel invention. |
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I started reading these posts, but about 1/8th of the way through I lost the will to live. This is a good idea, it does exist (of sorts) nowadays: |
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At work we have a security code, 1234, when people type in 1235 (which happens with alarming regularity) the police turn up 20 minutes later all angry. (Not too hard to remember to add 1 to your PIN?) |
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I think a better idea would be that when the panic pin is entered, a bulletproof shield-room is plonked around the person entering the number, they have a phone, bed, lazy-boy recliner, kitchen, mini bar, garage.... the would-be robber will get bored and go away. |
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Of course, thinking about it... after 2 hours you wouldn't be able to get to the ATM's anymore - they'd all be out-of-order cos homeless people have keyed-in wrong numbers just to get their own "home" |
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GOD DAMN YOU JUST CAN'T TRUST HOMELESS PEOPLE :( :( |
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Unfortunately, no one would remember their panic PIN, because its hard to remember things, ESPECIALLY when you are panicked. &however&, if the PIN panic number is the last four digits of people's social security number, nearly everyone would remember it! |
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The best part about the social security panic number is that banks already have the number, so they wouldn't have to deal with the expense of asking all of their customers for a new number. |
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Also, the idea to stamp the money in UV ink with "stolen" is a good idea, so long as the robber does not bring a UV light. The entire bill should be coated with a very thin layer of ink so that only a machine will be able to see it. |
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I have only just found this site, but this truly sounds like plausible idea. All great and innovative ideas have downfalls, but it is clear that the positives far outweigh any shortcomings. (The votes tell you this). |
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As an engineering designer, I’m interested to know whether the proposal has been taken further. If contact has been made with ATM companies or industrial designers to produce prototype dispensers or refine the concept. With the current climate on tackling crime in the UK recently, there would be no-end of interested parties. If someone has taken on this task, my self and I’m sure many others, would be interested in their progress or findings. |
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As far as remembering PIN's, a use a little trick. I write the PIN on the back of the card, after subtracting a "secret number" from it. I use the same secret number for all of my cards. For example, if my secret number was 101, and my PIN was 4352, I would write 4251 on the back of the card. Then, whenever I use the card, I just look at the number on the back and add 101 to it. Now I only have one number to remember!! |
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but this idea is not about remembering pin numbers. you need to scroll up five miles and read the idea [johnny] |
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this idea is brilliant, one of the best ive ever heard, i think
it would have a major impact on atm robberies and such. |
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call it the Don't Panic Pin, coz panic is the last thing you need in these kinda tensed situations.. |
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would you get a fine if you accidentally enter the PANIC PIN? |
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If you are using the panic PIN to withdraw money, only to say later the robber was standing out of view of the camera and you want to be reimbursed for the withdrawl, you had better be fined for using the panic PIN.
There's one slight problem with this idea ... will banks find a way to turn it into a monthly "panic PIN" fee, say $1.50? |
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A truly superlative idea! |
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However, the "+1" method of coding the Panic PIN is flawed - the assailant would (as I'm sure someone mentioned earlier) simply subtract 1 from the number you gave them. If you gave them the Panic PIN, they would have put the correct number in and obtained the money. |
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Howsabout you just add 3 (for example) to *any* digit in your normal PIN - it still keeps your PIN pretty secure, but the perp wouldn't know which number you'd altered. |
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How about just entering your regular pin number in reverse? Of course, I could see the probem if the pin was "2222". But the banks could request that you not choose a pin like that, just as some say do not use "0000" now. |
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didn't have time to read the whole thing read only 2002's. don't understand why banks don't use this method. |
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I suffer regular panic attacks and would welcome this as a crutch to help me face the unacceptable face of modern society. |
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The only one of you meatbuckets that spelled the word PINs correctly (yes, I'm talking to you; it's not Pins, PINS, PIN's, pin's, or whatever else you can concoct) spelled the word "thieves" immediately afterward as "theives," having come to a stunning new conclusion along the lines of "i before e except after h." The above inflammatory remarks relate to the word ATMs as well. The apostrophe has NEVER and NEVER WILL BE used to indicate plurality! And yes, I joined this thing just to laugh at you and point. All of you. Now who wants a hug? |
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Hurrah for plain james! And bonus points for inspired use of, "Meatbuckets". You tell the bastard's! |
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(Never go back after the blue touch paper has been lit.) |
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Apostrophes are quite properly used to indicate plurals of letters, digits, and symbols. The above sentence, for example, contains (if I counted right), six s's. The use of apostrophes to convert acronyms and other odd words to plural form is most likely an offshoot of this practice. Since the purpose of grammatical rules is to aid people in writing clearly and understandably, rather than to be an end unto themselves, I do not look down upon those who would write "PhD's" rather than "PhDs". Although such writing is not acknowledged in writing standards, having some form of punctuation between the abbreviation or acronym and its suffix can clarify things greatly. |
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By the way, if you were transcribing some dialogue among sports figures, would it be clearer to say that someone was "dequeued", "dee-queued", "DQed", or "DQ'ed". In a purely written context, the natural thing would be to write out "disqualified"; if one is transcribing someone who used the two-syllable utterance, however, how should one write it? |
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[BTW, the apostrophes in "ATM's" and "DQ'ed" aren't entirely nonsensical, as they could be said to represent the elision of "achine" or "ualifi", respectively.] |
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